daniel 2:44 new world translation
I think you are very close to the truth. Agarza's answer cited scholars who disagrees with your opinion. If we examine every place in John's (and the other Gospel writers) writings where he has used theos (the form which is used for subjects and predicate nouns and ends with an s') to mean "God," we find he always uses the article (ho, the') with it, unless it is accompanied by a "prepositional" modifier: "of you"; "to us"; with him"; "for all"; etc. "god was the word.". Though the manuscript always uses the same word, it is translated differently based on how it is used in context. And I know you didn't say this but just want to clarify that bias doesn't always lead to inaccuracy and all inaccuracies are not due to bias. Jesus was a created angel? ", John 20:17 - "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.".
Where is your evidence to support your claim that Koine Greek does not translate into modern English, that the two languages are completely incompatible? (pp. So that means Jesus is not the Creator God. Daniel explained that the last Kingdom in the king's forgotten dream, would supernaturally shatter every other world power - and would do sowithouthuman hands or worldly weaponry. You also stated, "So that means Jesus is not the Creator God." It will be noticed that the above rules for the special uses of the definite article are none of them rigid and without exceptions. Why can we not simply believe him? First, koine Greek (the New Testament Greek used in the best critical editions) does not translate into modern English. Platonic proportions. a great example is the word translated "Death," "the Grave, "the Pit" and "hell." That experience you mentioned was one that JWs frequently undergo. defend the unity of God against the Gnostics.[203]. @steveowen "accuracy" depends on who's reading and what theology is expected. ", One, which initially makes the most sense, but is completely false, nevertheless, is "Colwell's Rule." And, yes, this is just one line of reasoning - there are other verses in John's gospel that could be connected to support a trinitarian viewpoint and that's another line of reasoning. meaning he believed that the Father was superior to the Son and the As such I'd expect the sentiment expressed by such non-Witness comments to be attenuated in their criticism. See my answer here for specific examples. The bible shows that Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. [201] Jerome records that Origen had written that 
. This is not a trinitarian based translation so you will see ideas presented that are not aligned with that philosophy of a 3in1 God. If a creature's only food source was 4,000 feet above it, and only rarely fell from that height, how would it evolve to eat that food? 10 Beautiful, True Things God Says about You. My Greek Professor, Dr. Ron Saur, invited the two JWs into his home discussing this very issue of "a god" in John 1:1. There arose a man that was sent forth as a representative of a god: his name was John. The context makes no such demand in the Gospel of John, for this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas [John 20:28, My Lord and my God]. 19, In Col. 1:15-17 the Jehovahs Witnesses translation falsifies what Paul originally wrote, rendering it: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth. And that idea would not agree with the rest of the Bible, including the preceding verse, which calls Jesus the firstborn of all creation. (Col 1:15; compare Re 3:14, where Jesus is called the beginning of the creation by God.) Also, the Greek word for all can in some contexts have the meaning all other, as for example at Lu 13:2 (all other); Lu 21:29 (all the other); Php 2:21 (all the others). The New World Translation is not only not the "most accurate," but it is one of the least accurate I've ever come across. The kjb is particularly riddled with error. The two languages are completely incompatible. English has an indefinite article; Greek doesn't have one!
Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica. He, again, who makes is one, and He through whom the thing is made is Obviously, every translation has problems but the NWT is correct here. The second has no "the" article, corresponding to the indefinite "a god". I remember when I used to go preaching door to door that I would meet someone, they would invite me and my partner in, and try to reason with us and help us examine our beliefs, and sometimes we would find a problem or inconsistency. All rights reserved. Re your astute observation with regard to Colossians 1:16: "This unwarranted insertion by the NWT is an attempt to make the text fit their theology. It is not present in the original Greek, and was obviously used by the translators in order to make the passage refer to Jesus as being on a par with other created things. 8:58 is correct. It's not hilarious, but very sad that you cannot see the errors provided - I even gave you two - there are dozens of them to reinforce the trinity idea as it was a non-starter with the authentic text. How can we understand differences between the NWT and Latin/Hebrew/Greek on Zechariah 12:10? and that grammatical inconsistency is why they want people to believe the Bible teaches that John's God is actually just "a god". In his review of the New World Translation that forms part of the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, Associate Professor Thomas N. Winter wrote: The translation by the anonymous committee is thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate.The Classical Journal, April-May 1974, page 376. D. Therefore, if we restrict our examples to those used by John only and which are closest in construction to John 1:1c, we should thereby avoid any and all honest dissension concerning definite article use (and non-use) and different grammatical constructions, etc. Itwould crush each rulership and grind to powder all former kingdoms and would itself endure forever and ever. The absence of the article [before ] does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb; it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it. In contrast, God has no beginning, Psalm 90:2. Announcing the Stacks Editor Beta release! Yes, of course I agree with you to an extent. 2. Okay, there is a problem with your justifications. John 1:1c - English translation: "The Word was a god." I'm not your down-voter, but it strikes me that you quote from a selection made by the Jehovah's Witness official website. If it is because you disagree with what I posted, that is your prerogative but I provided quotes from non-JWs that answer the original question. The Greek is straightfoward, and the deliberate contrast between was and am is absolutely intentionalit's as clear in Greek as it is in English. Very good answer. (NET). Yes, Tertullian coined the word trinitas but here's what he said about the Father and the Son: "Thus the Father is distinct from the Son, being greater than the John 1:6 - There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name was John. How can we understand differences between NWT and Latin/Greek on Acts 20:28? Copyright 2022, Bible Study Tools. Verse of the Day , Daniel 2:44 Treasury of Scripture Knowing, Gods Lost Majesty - Character and Attributes of God (27). Why would they do this if he merely said "I have been"?
Professor S. MacLean Gilmour, while not agreeing with some renderings in the New World Translation, still acknowledged that its translators possessed an unusual competence in Greek.Andover Newton Quarterly, September 1966, page 26. I completely agree that theology should not be formed from what we think the writer didn't write. Do you regard these scholars as not having any knowledge of Greek and Hebrew as well? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God: and the Word was God. "It reads like a translation by someone who knows neither Hebrew nor Greek, but has gotten their hands on an interlinear, and is interested in the Greek and Hebrew languages, and is 'living their best life' by convincing others they do know them". In the case of John 1:1, there is such a footnote in the NWT. Your comment "is not an opinion but an accurate assessment of the translators" does not make it accurate. Another inconvenient reality that the JWs seem to overlook is in John 8:59. He put on his hat and they all walked out the door. Commenting on the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, British Bible critic Alexander Thomson wrote: The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars, who have sought to bring out as much of the true sense of the Greek text as the English language is capable of expressing.The Differentiator, April 1952, page 52. [Note that "God" has no article but is not translated "a god" as the NWT demand in V1. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can testify.. But its also a poor argument linguistically as well haha, But whole books and many articles have been written on this, so I wont waste my time rehashing haha. All rights reserved worldwide. Trinitarian scholars, in desperation, have invented "grammar rules" in the last century or two in order to "make" John 1:1c say "and the Word was God [ho theos]. As if it wasn't obvious, the point of this passage was to exhaust everything in existence "all things, whether in heaven or on earth." This was the concept of famed Jewish scholar and writer, Philo. There's enough people who would have encountered NWT that handpicked testimonials of non JWs could easily present that it's much better than it is by random chance alone. What something says, and what it implies, are two separate things. In translation, we still have to use our brains. Matthew was a tax collector, an employee of the Roman Empire. ), O. @oldhermit Your comment is likely to be deleted because of disrespect. I think you were just a little lazy in your study. But when he uses it alone (and, again, without "prepositional" additions such as "of the world" "in the house"; "with the Lord"; etc. ), we must look at the NT Greek text (which has the equivalent English word written above each Greek word in the interlinear Bible) and see if the predicate noun we found in the English translation on the other page ("eagle" in the example above) actually comes before the verb in the Greek. Revelation 3:14. Heavenly Father, it is amazing and wonderful to realise that You know the end from the beginning and that from the foundation of the world, You purposed in Your heart to redeem Your fallen race and return the sceptre of power to humanity - through the Person and Work of Your only begotten Son. Somehow we have to deal with the cognitive dissonance though. The Word dwelt with man: and the Word was man. In fact, even certain scholars have correctly admitted that those very first readers for whom John wrote his Gospel were already aware of the `Logos' concept even before John wrote to them. http://www.bible-researcher.com/metzger.jw.html, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek#New_Testament_Greek. Why do you trust it so much? G. We are dealing exclusively with nouns as found in John 1:1c. On a magnetar, which force would exert a bigger pull on a 10 kg iron chunk? However, the Greek text clearly says that all things were made by Christ." Quotations designated (NIV) are from THE HOLY BIBLE: NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION. Other righteous persons and faithful angels have been called "gods" or "a god" by the inspired Bible writers. The OP cj564 made no "justifications". @@RevelationLad. It's the scientific method in reverse: start with a conclusion, then fudge the experiments and research to agree with it. Professor Benjamin Kedar-Kopfstein, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, said in 1989: In my linguistic research in connection with the Hebrew Bible and translations, I often refer to the English edition of what is known as the New World Translation. Based on his analysis of nine major English translations, Jason David BeDuhn, associate professor of religious studies, wrote: The NW [New World Translation] emerges as the most accurate of the translations compared. Although the general public and many Bible scholars assume that the differences in the New World Translation are the result of religious bias on the part of its translators, BeDuhn stated: Most of the differences are due to the greater accuracy of the NW as a literal, conservative translation of the original expressions of the New Testament writers.Truth in Translation, pages 163, 165. Jesus said he was a man (John 8:40). However, such a rendering could give the impression that Jesus was not created but was the Creator himself. Should We Read (All of) the Bible Literally? You attack the NWT because it is not a Trinitarian translation. The young nobleman described a series of worldwide political kingdoms which would supersede one another by destroying the proceeding one. A man who. If one word were to be used to describe the NWT translation, it would be "inconsistent" I dare anyone to find a translation which translates the same Greek in more ways (depending on who is being spoken ofwhich violates the most basic rules of translation) than the NWT. Daniel had been selectedto be trained in the Babylonian arts and would have been counted among the 'wise men' of Babylon - facing certain death. Indeed the kingdom of Christ began to be set up in the times of Augustus Caesar, under whom Christ was born; and of Tiberius, under whom he was crucified; and was continued and increased in the reigns of others, until it obtained very much in the times of Constantine; and, after it suffered a diminution under the Papacy, was revived at the Reformation; but will not be set up in its glory until Christ has overcome the ten kings, or kingdoms, and put it into their hearts to hate and burn the antichristian whore; and when she and all the antichristian states will be destroyed by the pouring out of the vials: and then in their days shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; this is the kingdom of the Messiah, as is owned by both ancient and modern Jews: so it is said in an ancient book F16 of theirs. If Jesus is not the Creator, he is not the only true God, His God is the only true God. Also, even if the New Testament said nothing about the Trinity ('that Father, Son and Spirit are God, and there is only one God'), it wouldn't mean it's not true the Bible contains a subset of all the beliefs and teachings of the Apostles and Judaism. In other words, it's not a one to one relationship. Agreed. ], Matt 12:28 - But if it is by means of Gods spirit that I expel the demons, the Kingdom of God has really overtaken you.
It's not just attempting to understand a passage; it's an attempt to start with a theological belief, then invent grammar ruleswhich are unavoidably inconsistentin order to support that theology. Although he felt that the New World Translation had both peculiarities and excellences, Robert M. McCoy concluded his review of it by stating: The translation of the New Testament is evidence of the presence in the movement [Jehovahs Witnesses] of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many problems of Biblical translation.Andover Newton Quarterly, January 1963, page 31. So are the NIV, KJV, ASV, and many others (insert your favorite here). Such a rendering is not such a surprising concept as many modern members of Christendom might think. [211][214] In fact, virtually all Once you have enough reputation, you will be able to post comments on other people's answers. The bible shows that Jesus is a created being, Colossians 1:15. In John 1:1c, should the Greek word be translated into English as a god or God? Leaving aside the specific issues around , I would point out that in this sentence doesn't have an article, yet it is translated as "the beginning," not ", This same logic doesnt work well when applied to other words we commonly prefix with a definite article. Please read our guidelines to understand how we are different to other sites and what we look for in well-researched answers: This article about Koine Greek and New Testament Greek is most helpful: "remember that none of the disciples could either read or write" what evidence to you have to support this claim? If it comes before the verb, and if it is anarthrous (that is, without the article, "the") and meets the other requirements above, then we may have found a proper example to compare with John 1:1c. . How Can We Experience Gods Power through Prayer? It is true that many of Jesus' disciples were unlettered, but these apostles most certainly could read and write. Hi @Bruce Gomez, please only post answers to the original question, rather than using the answer feature to engage in a discussion with other answers.
et Verbum erat apud Deum, That is, a singular noun which is a person, place, or thing and which can be used with both an indefinite article ("a" or "an" - in English only: Greek has no indefinite article) and a definite article ("the") and which can be properly changed into a recognizably plural form: e.g., "WORD": "a word"/"the word"/"words;" - "GOD": "a god"/"the god"/"gods;" - "HOUSE": "a house"/"the house"/"houses;" etc. Despite noting what he felt were a few unusual renderings, author Charles Francis Potter said: The anonymous translators have certainly rendered the best manuscript texts, both Greek and Hebrew, with scholarly ability and acumen.The Faiths Men Live By, page 300. The great God of heaven and earth Who gave this revelation to Daniel, was going toutterly destroy every fragment of his Babylonian empire and all the great kingdoms that would succeed him, "that final Kingdom will not be left for another people," Daniel explained to the king. Two other verses were given in the original question and we can certainly explore those as well. Site design / logo 2022 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Colossians 1:15 says he is the firstborn of God's creation. Are those the only different examples from the mainstream? K. To find such examples we need a Greek-English New Testament Interlinear Bible (available in any "Christian" book store or from any Jehovah's Witness). (quotations given are from the KJV): John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time;", John 14:28 - "my Father is greater than I. Son, Inasmuch as He who begets is one, and He who is begotten is To write anything else in Greek is to identify the Word as the Father. You should see how the NWT has altered the original words in Hebrews chapter 1 to support their belief that Jesus is a created angel. So, good grammar can't argue "No article = a god, always, the end". What does John 1:3 mean by "through" Jesus everything is made? The translation of every cult has "sought to remove the bias" or introduced another text to restore the long-lost truth. John 18:37 (b) - indefinite ("a king") - in Received Text and in 1991 Byzantine Text.]. In the end though, we always disregarded it, having the same mindset, "you believe what you will, and I'll believe what I will". The translation I've provided is accurate, since it respects the rule of Greek that when an anarthrous noun (no 'the') precedes a to be verb (here, "was"), followed by an arthrous noun (having a 'the'), such is an identification of the arthrous noun with the anarthrous one fundamentally speaking, and not an identification to the point of making the two nouns identical. They are all from the same Greek word "hades" and the Hebrew word "sheol." Your down-vote registers your disapproval with my post (as it does with Dottards post). John, the disciple whom Jesus loved, not only wrote his gospel but also the Revelation of Jesus Christ. During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. A. "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. [4. Does the official Jehovah's Witness explanation (above) confirm they altered the wording of Colossians 1:16 because of their belief that Jehovah God created the mighty spirit known in heaven as Michael the Archangel who was then born as Jesus, and that through him everything else was created? Language is an art. FYI, the Greek article changes spelling to agree with the Noun Case of the noun. Open the eyes of those who have been blinded by the god of this world, and bring many into Your kingdom before it is too late. It is wiser not to use them as a basis for theological argument until the student has reached an advanced stage in the knowledge of the language. The Lord caused Nebuchadnezzar, the great king of Babylon, to have a prophetic dream which greatlydisturbed him. However, as many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become God's children, because they were exercising faith in his name; , , . Greek words are translated differently based on the context in which they are found. My saviour is no created angel. That doesnt negate your argument, either. And at Colossians 1:16 the NWT says, "By him/Jesus all (other) things have been created." ), it simply means "a man." John 3:16 and Revelation 3:14. What did this agent create in your view? The opening verse of Johns Gospel contains one of the many passages where this rule suggests the translation of a predicate as a definite noun. The word "beginning" expresses a starting point in time. anyone alive today, like Tertullian and Origen of Alexandria. That has no blasphemous connotation. Mark was an associate of Paul and he came from a wealthy family. at another point, he writes that "Up to the present I have been able
